“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
- Paul Jones
- Iconic Photographer
- Posts: 2378
- Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:35 pm
- Spam Protection: No
- Contact:
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
Henri Cartier-Bresson
My latest blog post - http://www.pauljones.org/?p=1900
Does a photograph have to be pin sharp and technically perfect to have merit? Discuss...
Henri Cartier-Bresson
My latest blog post - http://www.pauljones.org/?p=1900
Does a photograph have to be pin sharp and technically perfect to have merit? Discuss...
Paul
================
http://www.PaulJones.org
"As usual Paul is absolutely correct."
"In short, Paul is an absolutely brilliant mentor."
================
http://www.PaulJones.org
"As usual Paul is absolutely correct."
"In short, Paul is an absolutely brilliant mentor."
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
Interesting thoughts Paul, and I agree images do not always have to be bitingly sharp. I would say they need to be sharp when that is required by the photographer, but there's more than that to the art.
I spend a fair bit of time measuring whether or not lenses are sharp - some are bitingly so, some quite wooly, but every one of them can be used creatively one way or another.
I usually think of David Hamilton as an example of someone who made a fortune using a rubbish lens to make images that were nowhere near sharp. I'm not sure they are very PC images these days, but he's probably a major example of the soft focus photographer.
I spend a fair bit of time measuring whether or not lenses are sharp - some are bitingly so, some quite wooly, but every one of them can be used creatively one way or another.
I usually think of David Hamilton as an example of someone who made a fortune using a rubbish lens to make images that were nowhere near sharp. I'm not sure they are very PC images these days, but he's probably a major example of the soft focus photographer.
Best regards
John
John
- Paul Jones
- Iconic Photographer
- Posts: 2378
- Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:35 pm
- Spam Protection: No
- Contact:
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
Thanks John. Good point about soft focus.
Just trying to stimulate some photographic debate...
Just trying to stimulate some photographic debate...
Paul
================
http://www.PaulJones.org
"As usual Paul is absolutely correct."
"In short, Paul is an absolutely brilliant mentor."
================
http://www.PaulJones.org
"As usual Paul is absolutely correct."
"In short, Paul is an absolutely brilliant mentor."
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
We try to get conversations going from time to time but not many join in!
Does anybody else have an opinion on sharpness?
Does anybody else have an opinion on sharpness?
Best regards
John
John
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
I'll win loads of competitions if blur is the norm
Anyway...
I was watching a documentary about photographer Bob Gruen ( photographed various rock stars and was John Lennon's favoured photographer).
I noticed that many of the images shown weren't particularly sharp. I think they were accepted for publication because Gruen was capturing natural intimate moments of these famous people that us mortals wouldn't usually see. So I think in this case clarity takes a back seat to nostalgia.
On the other hand, advances in camera technology these days also affects opinions on images. Since I've started snapping (usually with my phone), many will get deleted because I don't think they're sharp enough, even though the image is probably sharper than one I had taken on a phone ten years ago.
Anyway...
I was watching a documentary about photographer Bob Gruen ( photographed various rock stars and was John Lennon's favoured photographer).
I noticed that many of the images shown weren't particularly sharp. I think they were accepted for publication because Gruen was capturing natural intimate moments of these famous people that us mortals wouldn't usually see. So I think in this case clarity takes a back seat to nostalgia.
On the other hand, advances in camera technology these days also affects opinions on images. Since I've started snapping (usually with my phone), many will get deleted because I don't think they're sharp enough, even though the image is probably sharper than one I had taken on a phone ten years ago.
Joanne
"Anybody can be a great photographer if they zoom in enough on what they love." - David Bailey
"Anybody can be a great photographer if they zoom in enough on what they love." - David Bailey
-
- Chair
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:02 pm
- Spam Protection: No
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
Any question which starts "Does a photograph have to be (sharp, composed according to rules, RAW, monochrome, portrait, landscape.........) to have merit?" demands the answer "no", because we can all quote excellent images from great photographers which break the "rules". In the context of a camera club with a focus on competition, sharpness becomes an objective measure to compare images which are good but don't have the spark of brilliance which allows a judge to sidestep the usual criteria.
I didn't know what Cartier Bresson meant by his pithy comment, although Paul's blog suggest that it might have been a tactful comment about a fellow photographic celebrity. Wikipedia explains that the bourgeoisie is an old European term representing the middle class which became defined in the French revolution. In relation to Marxist philosophy the article states "In Marxist philosophy the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital, to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society". This could translate to the value photographers put on the technological advances in cameras and lenses and the race to produce sharper, brighter lenses and higher pixel counts with fantastic image processing engines. Lens reviews concentrate on charts and scientific measures of sharpness as a justification for eye watering prices (John is an honorable exception with his ephotozine reviews which give value to image quality as a soft measure and his fascinating reviews of older glass). We value the quality of our equipment and become protective of our brand. Sharpness could represent the perpetuation of supremacy in our little society.
There is a large population of young photographers who do not value sharpness, witness the rebirth of polaroid and the popularity of lomography and instagram filters mimicking old instamatic prints. Their images may not be to our taste but that is not the same as having merit.
Is that what you had in mind John??
I didn't know what Cartier Bresson meant by his pithy comment, although Paul's blog suggest that it might have been a tactful comment about a fellow photographic celebrity. Wikipedia explains that the bourgeoisie is an old European term representing the middle class which became defined in the French revolution. In relation to Marxist philosophy the article states "In Marxist philosophy the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital, to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society". This could translate to the value photographers put on the technological advances in cameras and lenses and the race to produce sharper, brighter lenses and higher pixel counts with fantastic image processing engines. Lens reviews concentrate on charts and scientific measures of sharpness as a justification for eye watering prices (John is an honorable exception with his ephotozine reviews which give value to image quality as a soft measure and his fascinating reviews of older glass). We value the quality of our equipment and become protective of our brand. Sharpness could represent the perpetuation of supremacy in our little society.
There is a large population of young photographers who do not value sharpness, witness the rebirth of polaroid and the popularity of lomography and instagram filters mimicking old instamatic prints. Their images may not be to our taste but that is not the same as having merit.
Is that what you had in mind John??
"People say that nothing is impossible, but some times I can do nothing all day"
Gordon
Gordon
- Paul Jones
- Iconic Photographer
- Posts: 2378
- Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:35 pm
- Spam Protection: No
- Contact:
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
Good posts everyone.
Paul
================
http://www.PaulJones.org
"As usual Paul is absolutely correct."
"In short, Paul is an absolutely brilliant mentor."
================
http://www.PaulJones.org
"As usual Paul is absolutely correct."
"In short, Paul is an absolutely brilliant mentor."
- Phil Jones
- Member
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:36 pm
- Spam Protection: No
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
Hi Everyone.
Excellent points from all of you.
Paul, I've seen the photo on your blog and, no, the lack of sharpness ( which is minimal anyway ) doesn't detract from the image. In any case you could say it was tiny wisps of cigar smoke!
In this type of discussion I'm always reminded of the rock photographer Pennie Smith who hated probably her most iconic photo as it wasn't sharp enough ( in her opinion. ) As I'm always being told when my photos don't do as well as I think they should in competitions etc
" If you like it, that's all that matters. "
Regards,
Phil.
Excellent points from all of you.
Paul, I've seen the photo on your blog and, no, the lack of sharpness ( which is minimal anyway ) doesn't detract from the image. In any case you could say it was tiny wisps of cigar smoke!
In this type of discussion I'm always reminded of the rock photographer Pennie Smith who hated probably her most iconic photo as it wasn't sharp enough ( in her opinion. ) As I'm always being told when my photos don't do as well as I think they should in competitions etc
" If you like it, that's all that matters. "
Regards,
Phil.
-
- Chair
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:02 pm
- Spam Protection: No
Re: “Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.”
"People say that nothing is impossible, but some times I can do nothing all day"
Gordon
Gordon