ADAPS Competitions Formats?

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What is your preferred format for ADAPS competitions?

35mm slide
0
No votes
Mounted Prints
2
10%
Digitally Projected Image
1
5%
Prints & Slides as now
6
30%
Prints & Digitally Projected Images
11
55%
I don't really care about competitions
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 20

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Paul Jones
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ADAPS Competitions Formats?

Post by Paul Jones »

There was a little discussion at Committee tonight about the future formats of club competitions.

With the Committee's approval, I'd like to throw this open to the members to gauge some opinions.

With a general downturn in camera club members shooting slide film, it's becoming an accepted fact that the tradional 35mm slide format will eventually cease to play a part in club competitions.

The question is, what format would members like to use or continue to use?

Are prints on their way out, or are they cherished as an integral part of being a photographer? Do all members have the ability to produce prints, either home printing or trade processed?

What about our newer members? Would they like to be producing prints for competitions?

Or would members like to enter images for competition in a digital format and see them projected on-screen?

Do we need two categories, perhaps - one for prints and one for digitally projected images?

Lots of questions, I know. Let us know what you think on the subject. We're not planning any changes to the current competiton formats just yet, but it would be helpful to see what people think.
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John
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Post by John »

I think prints should be a major part of our competitions on the grounds of quality and the ability to exhibit them.

I also like projected images in that they allow even those at the back of the room to see the detail clearly and would allow those without a printer to join in the competitions.

So I would vote for two sections - prints and "digital slides" - which leaves the competitions pretty much as now but just relaces the 35mm slide a new format.
Best regards

John
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keith richardson
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Adaps competition formats

Post by keith richardson »

You can put me down for the Prints and digitally projected vote too.

I'm sure every member will have access to a printer, printing service or darkroom, and anyone who uses a 'digital darkroom' already has the faciltiy for projected digital images.

I think the fact that the recent creative landscapes competition slide section was won by the only entry about sums things up for the future of slide competitions. Its not a nice thought but its a fact nontheless.

Keith.
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The competition format

Post by Alan Duckworth »

Here we go again. We seem to have been here before. The Luddites on one side the progressives on the other. I think it will all be digital eventually, but the fact remains that not all the membership have digital facilities. Some of those that have still use slide film, and will be precluded from competitions if the format is all digital. I will, as a true democrat go along with the majority, but it all augurs for a long A.G.M. next year. As an aside I seem to be unable to cast a vote in the poll.
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Poll.

Post by Alan Duckworth »

Please ignore my not being able to vote complaint. I've now been able to visit the hustings.
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Post by John »

Here we go again. We seem to have been here before.
Don't feel too discouraged, the fact is that it is increasingly difficult to get any slide entries at all, as Keith has mentioned.

We really struggled to put together slides for battles this year, very few slides are being shot and other clubs want to ditch them.

If we do nothing, the slides will disappear and the Annual Slide Competition will become a very short night!

It was discussed at some length at the committee meeting yesterday and it was decided to start the debate as to what the membership would like to do. We will need to do something to keep the competitions vital and active and all ideas and opinions are being invited.

:?: :idea: :?:
Best regards

John
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Presentation of Images

Post by HarryG »

I feel that this should be an open and considered debate and not suffer from the prejudices and self interest of the past.

Some advantages of the projected image;
1. Anyone can submit images. No need for expensive printer, mounting board, computer enhancement. This suits the beginner.
2. Images are seen at 5ft square and so can easily be seen from the back of the room.
3. No lugging boxes of prints to a judge, images can be emailed or posted on a disk or SD card.
4. Judges can’t look on the back of a print to see the author
5. Members unable to attend clubrooms can submit by email.

Some disadvantages;
1. Traditional film workers excluded from competitions.
2. No hard copy of images for exhibitions or appraisal after competitions.
3. Images moved around in a digital format are open to theft.
4. Equipment expensive and could breakdown during presentation.
5. Colour of projection not always accurate (but this applies to all images).

My two penny worth for the future would be;
1. A single competition for slides taken on film.
2. All external battles as projected image. (with agreement)
3. Monthly and Annual competitions – prints only
4. Two extra competitions as projected Images.
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Post by Cookie »

Jim and I have found it very difficult to find slides for the battles. After several appeals for some to be brought forward, we have acquired a few, but even the regulars are admitting to not taking slide films as prolifically as before. We have had fifteen slides from five people. We know that we are being asked by other clubs for digitally projected images for the battles and we feel we are going to have to produce these for battles and external competitions possibly from next year. However, if there are enough slides being produced to warrant a slide competition then keep it in the internal competitions, but we know from an earlier competition that only one slide was entered, so I feel we are going to have to consider the digitally projected images.

We do still feel that there should be prints at competitions, there is nothing nicer than to view and touch your own creations. As john has mentioned in an earlier message, people at the back of the room don't get to see the prints too well... and unless prints are highly marked they are not put up for close inspection at the end of the competition.

It seems to us that there has to be one rule for external competitions (prints and digital images). However, a different set of rules for the internal competitions according to the members requirements.
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Post by Paul Jones »

Thanks for the replies and poll votes so far.

Of course, if the organiser of an external competition (battle) specifies that they want entries submitted as digital files then we either comply or don't enter. That's quite clear-cut.


I was really trying to ascertain what ADAPS members feelings are towards ADAPS internal competitions, eg our Monthly and Annual competitions.

Do we have any members still shooting 35mm slides? Is the slide as a competition format effectively dead? Are members keen to keep prints alive? Do we need prints? What are the views on digitally projected images as an alternative to prints, or an accompaniment alongside prints?

I'm just throwing all these questions out for debate and have little prejudice.

Over to you...
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ADAPS competition formats

Post by Theo Dibbits »

My 2 pennies.
Prints. Because getting the picture from a digital file to paper still requires printing skills that are part of photography even when you use an outside lab. It is also easier to judge critical sharpness in a print versus projection.
Digital projection. As previously stated every one can see them, the cost is reduced, you could have people voting for them on line and finally having a significant inflow of new digital images will help to refresh our main website. You could even create "remote membership" as images could be emailed.

For those shooting slides the situation would be reversed from the current in that they would have to go from slide to digital file instead of the reverse.
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Post by Lee Bold »

I am all for keeping prints as said above you can view the quality much better on paper but why not have the same picture to be projected for all to see in large format on the wall whilst still allowing the judge to see the print up close.
I know it would take some syncing with the print order but it could be done.
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Post by Walter Brooks »

A question ... would we be having the discussion of film transparency vs digital image projection if we had film and digital capture but no image manipulation software?

Another question ... if we have digital projection so don't need slides, what need is there for prints in competitions?
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Post by John »

A question ... would we be having the discussion of film transparency vs digital image projection if we had film and digital capture but no image manipulation software?
I think the only issue is that we can't get enough slide entries. If the slides were thriving there would be no need for any change. As for the question it's probably going to be a different answer for different individuals. Some digital photographers manipulate their images, others go straight to print.
Another question ... if we have digital projection so don't need slides, what need is there for prints in competitions?
Prints have better resolution than projected digital images and can also be exhibited. I suppose the answer is that prints are thriving and they are a very satisfactory medium for a number of uses.
Best regards

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Post by oakeycoke »

Theo says "My 2 pennies.
Prints. Because getting the picture from a digital file to paper still requires printing skills that are part of photography even when you use an outside lab. It is also easier to judge critical sharpness in a print versus projection. "

Whilst i agree with these points, to produce a decent print at home does cost a small fortune especially if you use an A3 printer, and there's no doubt they produce prints that are more eye grabbing than A4. The print process is so complex, monitor calibration, print profiles etc that its not easy to get in print what you see on screen. If you send off to have them printed then you have little control over the print produced and there is again a cost involved.

The sharpness issue resolves round a number of points, I think the digital projector at adaps has seen better days, I would think its maximum resolution is 1024x768 and its brightness/lumens/contrast is well below current standards. I know I struggle to see John's digital nights in photoshop as the icons etc are not clear at the resolution used.

Thus if we are to project digital images then I feel a decent projector is required, but it also brings up the issue of resolution of the digital photos displayed. Do we save them at 1024x768 or larger and do we go for 72dpi or 300dpi etc, what are other clubs doing with regard to image size, dpi and compression?

Personally I'm all for digital image projection as its a fairer and cheaper means of producing photos for judging. We could still have slides for those that want them and maybe we could join them together as 'Projected images'. Yes the slides will have better resolution but an updated digi- projector would lessen that advantage. (Oh I'm on slide 35 of a 36 film, first time in about 20yrs so maybe, but i don't hold out a lot of hope there could be the odd one entered in a comp)

Prints? there's no doubt they are nice to look at so do we continue? I think so for the present, but here is a thought for the future and interclub competitions. - - - We just do projected images in club comps , but for inter-club etc we then print the winners etc on the CLUB PRINTER!!!

The club has darkroom facilities that the older members used regularly, why not a decent calibrated A3 printer that could be used by all members to print off photos. Yes there is a cost involved, but there would be a charge for each print, enough to cover costs but i would suggest a small percentage more so over a few years there will be money to buy a second or new one., This would probably be nearly as cheap as sending off to a printers and certainly more convenient.

Anyway, its a good subject for debate when there is nothing in the syllabus.

Phil.
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What need is there for prints in competitions?

Post by HarryG »

Possibly because members have spent £400 on anA3 printer and don't want to put it on Ebay.
When our heads finally emerge from the sand, we will see an image projected onto a screen. A fleeting image from a fleeting process.
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