Canon 7D/5D dilema

[PhilipHowe]

Having convinced Mrs Howe that now is the time for me to purchase a Canon 5D MkII, my timing couldn't have been any worse.

Canon have just announced the 7D and it looks very impressive. There are subtle differences, obviously, but the major difference is the fact that the 7D has an APS-C sensor (two in fact) and is therefore not a full frame. I'm now trying to decide which of the two I want/need. Is anyone else in the same position?

I may get a 50D, while I decide, as I've been persuaded this is a very good backup camera. I only have one EF-S lens, so this would then be used on the 50D, if the 5D was the path I chose.

I'm looking at portraits, so I believe the 5D is geared up to this more, however, the 7D can't be that bad, can it?

I'm sure taking photos with them all will be a lot easier than deciding which to have in the first place.

[Tom Gerrard]

You do have a genuine dilemma. Two good, but different cameras, with a price difference of only £325 doesn’t make the choice any easier. You say it will mostly used for portraits so ISO and noise shouldn’t be an issue, neither should Fps, the 5D Mkll is a bit slow. Do you use flash lighting for your portraits? Did you know that the 7D is the first Canon EOS to come with an Integrated Speedlite Transmitter? This could be very useful and save you toting studio lighting kits about and be independent of a mains elastic trickery supply. Don't forget the lens issue with a full frame camera.
I always recommend people to try cameras before buying, take your own card, take some shots, then take them home and have good look at them at your leisure. Coupled with your experience of handling both camera’s, should help you reach a decision.
Recently I tried the 5DMkll and have compared it with my 50D and I think I can live with the 50D a while longer for what difference I can see. The 50D is selling under £700 now, which will leave you with a bit of spare to buy one GOOD lens, which is another option open to you. If you go full frame you will have to get good glass to compliment the camera. But once again, whatever you do, try before you buy. Would you buy a car without a test drive?

Regards, Tom.

And Moses said “I will now taketh my Canon 50D and turn aside and capture this great sight, why the bush does not burn”. Exodus 3-3.

[markculshaw]

*Strokes his 5D MKII*

Both cameras are good, just to throw a spanner in the works have you looked at the previous generation 5D? Used models are around £750+
and are more than capable for the work you wish to do.

As I found out on saturday, you can have the best camera in the world, but if you use a poor lens, you are not going to get the best results from it.

i winder if Mr Gerrard will sell me his 70-200 f2.8 IS L lens for a good price :O)

[Tom Gerrard]

Mark,

You can winder as much as like, you certainly wind me up! Of course I’ll give a good, nay, a superb price on the aforementioned lens. I guarantee the price will be much more than you would ever dream of paying at the most expensive trader of your choice. Now, I can hear you saying, nothing could be fairer than that and as always you would be right. So don’t delay, act today, because an offer of this kind cannot stay on the table for too long.

Hear from you soon,

True-dealing and trustworthy Tom.

[Theo Dibbits]

Philip

a You are a lucky so and so by being in this position in the first place.

b I am with Tom that you would be better off investing in glass. I still use my old 300D in times and bet that using an L series lens I can take a portrait at A3 that is as good as a 5Dmk2 with one of your standard lenses. As Phil Boak always points out what is in a 7D today will be in the 600D within the next 18 months but lenses last 20 to 30 years.

c Looking at the list of your lenses I would seriously consider putting the whole lot on ebay. Buy the 50D and two L series lenses (even considering the monies of your existing lenses you will have no change out of 2 grand) Look at something like a 24 - 70 or a 24 - 105 (both IS) and a 70 - 200. Depending what you use the telephoto for will decide on IS or not. (When you shoot sport at 1/500 to 1/1000 IS is useless) You will also be very pleasantly surprised at the improvements you get from your existing 350D.

Just my opinion.

Theo

[PhilipHowe]

Thanks for all the replies and helpful advice, as always.

I deliberately didn't put this on the original post, however, I would buy the 24-105 kit Lens (makes me laugh this is described as a kit lens, always makes you think plastic, only in here because you need one to get you started). The 7D has a kit that includes the 15-135 IS Lens, which would eleviate me from my 24-135 IS I already own, however, the 24-105 would be my choice (even taking into account the 1.6x magnification of the 7D).

My actual question has nothing to do with the lenses I already have, as the idea is always to upgrade to as near to pro as I can, obviously it takes time, however, an L series on a 350D does not feel as sturdy as it should due to the plastic camera body. I have the battery grip which helps a little, but just doesn't feel right.

I've tangented my own thread now.

I'll try and find somewhere that will let me examine the two side by side, and, as you say, take my card and look at home later.

[Tom Gerrard]

The 24-105 mm L is a superb lens and is on my camera the majority of the time. I can use it for portraits and it’s a great ‘walkaround’ lens when I’m on my travels. I know several people who have this lens and all seem to be delighted with it. It’s a good choice.

Tom.

[Paul Jones]

I'll try and find somewhere that will let me examine the two side by side.....

You may have already seen these...

EOS 5D Mk II
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5dmarkii/

EOS 7D
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/

[Paul Jones]

Hi Philip

You may find bits in this thread useful....

"7D or 5D MkII?"
http://www.purestorm.com/forum/readThre ... 02&start=1

[Theo Dibbits]

Philip

I found the deal for you. Wilkinson cameras are offering

CANON EOS 5D MKII & EF 24-105MM F4L - FREE CANON 580EX FLASH FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY for a total price of £ 2599

I'll give you £ 200 for the 580EX so the body plus the fantastic 24 - 105 L series lens would cost you less then £2400.

Just let me know

Theo

[sunsworth]

Someone mentioned the Canon 5D, Stephens in Manchester currently have a mint used one in stock at £850, I'm sure there'd be some wiggle room there...

http://stephensphotocentre.goods.office ... temap.aspx

I recently sold my 5D on eBay and got just over £800 for it, so £850 from Stephens with six months warranty isn't too bad.

As also mentioned above think about lenses, it's no use have the most wonderful camera in the world if it's let down by the lens.

[PhilipHowe]

Theo,

Thank you for the kind offer, but if I went with that deal, I'd be keeping the speedlite!
Sunsworth, thanks, I may go into Manc at the weekend to have a rut around.
Paul, I had read the 7D one, but there's obviously a difference between someone who reviews them and someone who actually uses one of them. My main problem is the 5D gets such a good review and although most of the 7D reviews are not as indepth due to its age, they are certainly favourable.

Photo Pro magazine had a one page review where they had given it to a pro 5D user. His conclusion was that he'd decided to order one, but the next line said "as a backup to my 5D". Obviously, that didn't help me.

My experience of hardware is normally whether to buy a Canon or a Nikon or a Pentax (you get the idea), not to pick from two cameras so close from the same manufacturer.

Thanks one and all.

[oakeycoke]

Philip,

AS Theo says about me and he's right, what's in the 7D today will be in the 600D in 12 to 18 months for half the price. The 500D image quality is as good as the 50D from many reviews and its layout is similar to your 350D so that would save a couple of hundred.

Do you need full frame or crop is the 1st question, then do you need 5+ frames per second, I would say not for portraits and most things.

In anything photographic you need: a subject, light, photographer, lens, camera and finally processing software, generally in that order, but the first three can be swapped round a little. The photographer makes the photo from the subject matter and the light on it. Now the lens definitely comes before the camera, most modern dslr's even the starter models perform as well as most of the expensive ones from a few years back. So as already stated the lens you pick is the main deciding factor on the hardware side and will be in years to come.

So if you want an interim model get the 500D not the 50D, but then spend the rest on a good lens or two. The 'L' series Canon's are the obvious route, but dont forget there are a number of Canon lenses that aren't 'L's that perform very well, 100mmf/2 macro, 85mmf/1.8 for example, especially for portraits.

You cant beat the quality of prime lenses, but then you wont have the versatility of zooms, choices aren't easy.

I'd dispute the fact that 'L' glass doesn't sit well on the plastic xxxD series cameras. 'L' glass fits and works well on any Canon camera, the problem is weight, most of the 'L' lenses and the xD and xxD cameras weigh quite a bit and if you use them for a good few hours at a wedding or other venue then it can become a pain in the neck.

The 24-105mmf/4 is a good lens, but for me its only bugbear is that its f/4 and on a crop sensor its not that wide at the bottom end. Really you need to sit down and study what you want from your photography and what photos you want to take. We are all different, I do the odd wedding and use the 17-85 efs as the main lens on a 500D. Though the 24-105 is a better lens it doesn't suit my needs for group shots etc. I then have a 18-50f/2.8 for lower light situations as well as the 50mm f 1.8 . Now you cant keep changing lenses at a wedding so i carry 2 cameras, hence the weight problem two xxxD cameras weigh less and the ergonomics are similar. For the longer range i considered the 70-200IS, but I already had 3 lenses that roughly fit that range so I went for what I consider to be Canons best value for money image quality lens the 'L' 135mmf/2.0. If ever there was a lens built to convince people that the 'L' series are superior this is it. If I was only allowed one lens at a wedding this is the one I'd use, even if it meant I'd be across the road from the church to capture the group shots. For candid head shots its fantastic.

Sorry about the length of this reply, and I'll offer you more for the 580Mk11 than Theo, lol even though I've already got one.

Phil

[PhilipHowe]

Thanks to all who offered advice and opinions.

In the interim, I have purchased a Canon EOS 5d MKI & EF 28-200mm USM Lens, a 8GB card, 2 x batteries and charger, a wireless remote control shutter, a bendy tripod and the user manual from a well known auction site for a reasonable price.

This way, I'll at least find out if I want/need full frame.

[Andrew Shepherd]

I'm a bit late on this one, but I read a first look on the 7D in Digital SLR Photography magazine (November) and they compare it to the 5D mkII. The article is not on their website but this commentary is:

http://www.digitalslrphoto.com/news/313 ... s_7d.html

I don't think there is much between the two in terms of image quality/handling and the main factor (as you mentioned at the start) is the full-frame versus APS-C sensor. I like the full-frame for landscapes, but then miss the longer reach which the APS-C sensor gives, but having said that I manage with the 24-105L lens most of the time and use a 17-40 lens for landsapes.

The 7D is more "up to date" with some nice touches (such as the speedlite control). Another difference - the 5D doesn't have built-in flash, which I sometimes miss when I've left the flash at home.

Andrew

PS - I was impressed with the magazine - I can bring the magazine in on Thursday if anyone wants to read it.